Gulf Transactions, Capital and Value Creation with Eyad Faraj

00:00:00: Cash is king.

00:00:01: And so how do I start unlocking some of this trapped cash?

00:00:04: The short answer is yes, the region has moved from just being a distributor capital to also attracting it.

00:00:11: This is a private business where CEOs never had to answer anybody but himself and his family members who sit on board.

00:00:18: Yes All of sudden you have an international investor Who says i love what you've done with your business But these are my ideas.

00:00:23: Investors

00:00:24: all over the world fly in to raise capital, not to invest.

00:00:28: Projects that are being undertaken at this part of the world... ...are once-in-a-lifetime transformation!

00:00:39: Ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode of Beyond The Deck here with Roland Berger.

00:00:46: I'm Dorival Betzenkort your host And i was really looking forward to coming back right?

00:00:51: We had a little bit of break Of course for obvious reasons some challenges but in true Golf resilient spirit.

00:01:01: We're now back and stronger than ever And today we have a very, very critical topic where going to be covering were gonna be speaking about capital Now.

00:01:11: capital in the Gulf is not just about financial returns.

00:01:15: it always also plays a major role In terms of driving very ambitious economic transformation visions, building national champions, building whole new supply chains and really positioning Gulf countries in the world.

00:01:31: And to have that discussion no one better than my esteemed colleague here at Roland Burger who is a partner within our transaction and investor services practice.

00:01:44: he's from Bahrain but works all across the GCC so Let's take it away.

00:01:50: Welcome to the podcast,

00:01:52: guys!

00:01:52: Thank you what a pleasure.

00:01:53: thanks

00:01:54: great.

00:01:54: It's great.

00:01:54: I have you've been trying to get you on here for-for awhile and

00:01:57: glad we could make over

00:01:57: fine finally made it happen All right.

00:01:59: So i think before We dive into The topics?

00:02:02: Just want to talk just quickly about You yourself.

00:02:05: in your career so you Have seen the investment world from multiple angles Right From capital markets Investment banking And of course now from the perspective Of strategy consulting.

00:02:19: So you don't come at this purely as a consultant.

00:02:21: You've seen it in kind of a three-sixty way.

00:02:24: if we just throughout your career, If he does give us a little bit of an idea how you've seen the investment landscape evolve here in the Gulf over that years?

00:02:33: Yeah, so It's really good question and again thanks for having me.

00:02:37: I think when We Think About How Capital Was Deployed A Lot Of It Originally was Driven By The Public Sector To Think about investing in building out the economy.

00:02:50: And a lot of that was hydrocarbon based, right?

00:02:53: So A lot of the cap expended we saw... ...a lot of growth over leading up to last ten or fifteen years has been focused on that direction.

00:03:01: The capital deployed when we think about investments in returns was always cross-border outside of the respective country.

00:03:08: And that was mainly used as a hedge against the reliance and revenue that were generating from oil, also thinking about future generations over the last ten years things have started to change dramatically.

00:03:23: That capitol didn't only be deployed internationally.

00:03:30: there was an idea of why don't we use some of this capital to start driving the economy that One of the main topics that you hear, or one of the kind of markers is non-oil GDP.

00:03:47: And it's been a real focus we've seen over the last ten to fifteen years.

00:03:51: Okay so there was this move from pure diversification From portfolio perspective and actually from an economic fabric.

00:04:00: So its interesting capital here in the Gulf has to wear these two hats, right?

00:04:05: On one end it's a pure let say vehicle for financial returns as one would expect from Capital and In other sense.

00:04:14: It actually has to be almost like A driver of policy.

00:04:19: How do investors what kind of challenges does that Presents, you know when you have to balance those two worlds which sometimes could probably be attention right.

00:04:27: so historically the mandate has been and if You look at countries like Saudi Arabia The mandate was to drive change Right?

00:04:36: And I think over the last I would say the last you know twelve to twenty four months the focus has been on.

00:04:43: Now we've deployed all this capital, now we need to start thinking about creating and harvesting these values for the return of change.

00:04:51: so I think where were heading going forward is a bigger focus in return.

00:04:59: How do we ensure that were moving into the next phase of our growth?

00:05:03: And how to it?

00:05:04: in a way where not going sacrifice capital and generate right return for generations.

00:05:12: Excellent, so it seems like the region is somewhat maturing on this journey and now moving into a stage where The performance of these companies And you know they efficiency.

00:05:25: And the profitability is coming more in to focus right whereas before You were really more in a growth phase and trying to launch Now what's more around?

00:05:33: The value piece.

00:05:34: I think It's A natural progression To Where we're going Right.

00:05:38: I mean This Is not Going to be.

00:05:40: I Mean Moving projects and moving economies at the scale of what's being done in the Middle East requires a lot effort, requires thinking.

00:05:49: Requires humility as well to take a step back and say that didn't work.

00:05:54: let's go back and move forward too.

00:05:55: do it this way.

00:05:57: I think direction is pointing one-way but you're starting.

00:06:05: see how we are now moving into next phase.

00:06:08: How do I get these portfolio of assets to deliver the return that I want?

00:06:11: To how, do i Get from here.

00:06:13: To there and how Do i start thinking about?

00:06:16: growing These assets and crystallizing this value have invested so much.

00:06:20: i've employed people.

00:06:21: i've met these national objectives right i've got.

00:06:24: housing is now being addressed or if There was a shortage That's all sorts Of different discussions on how broad The economy Is.

00:06:32: i've attracted foreign direct investment through incentives.

00:06:34: we need to Now Start Thinking About you know growing that to make sure it's commercially viable for everybody.

00:06:40: Excellent, so I think this is a really good segue into the topic of value creation because you mentioned the word value a few times.

00:06:48: and when we think about value creation in context say an investor like private equity space which you know very well but work with a lot of private equity clients.

00:06:58: You're thinking about top-line revenue growth, cost optimization working capital optimization improving governance of the portfolio company.

00:07:10: How is that world shaping here in the Gulf, this transition into a greater focus on value creation?

00:07:17: Is it really just translation exactly same thing?

00:07:19: you would see other markets or are there any nuances more specific to region?

00:07:24: So

00:07:25: I would say value creation can be anything you want it to be, right?

00:07:29: We work on value creation projects with some of our clients where we think about how do we optimize this portfolio assets.

00:07:35: Where's the right home for this and this asset?

00:07:38: And Can It All Sit and Be Warehouse Under This Vehicle?

00:07:43: That's one way to look at it.

00:07:45: There is also then the operational value creation, which is coming more into focus where we're seeing across the world and this just a natural progression.

00:07:54: again in the sense that I have these businesses you know, if I want to get into an ROE of X and to get there.

00:08:05: What do we need on the top line?

00:08:07: How do i unlock that growth so my revenues increase?

00:08:10: If I wanna think about margin expansion what are the topics within the financial statements?

00:08:18: or P&L can start changing around with And introduce value through different initiatives to then get to EBITDA that grows.

00:08:30: And there's discussion on working capital, right?

00:08:32: End of the day no matter what anyone says cash is king and so how do I start unlocking some of this trapped cash?

00:08:40: maybe reduce my accounts receivable improve my cash collections.

00:08:45: getting more cash back into business will allow for some of these opportunities where that excess cash can then fund your growth or maybe fund you acquiring another asset and allowing to build, which is a value creation strategy.

00:09:01: I kind have to go back again because we started with the evolution of, let's say investment in the Gulf and that we said it was moving into this stage more a focus on performance.

00:09:17: At the same time... ...this role of economic transformation is far from complete.

00:09:22: It's not like okay check We've done it And now lets move to value creation.

00:09:26: It feels like now This tension Is going come even More and more To center-stage Where you were just talking about For example cost reduction.

00:09:37: the process of creating new markets and stimulating your supply chains, can be quite inefficient sometimes.

00:09:44: You might need to make a decision to say I'll buy from a local supplier or by a local material as opposed to importing from Asia.

00:09:54: How in practice are investors actually balancing these two things?

00:09:59: So one point to raise is you know, over the last ten years.

00:10:04: The regions become critical when you think about the world right and if the capital deployment, this spend.

00:10:13: The news that's coming out of their region from transforming the economy what is needed to broaden these economies?

00:10:21: and you're looking at logistics?

00:10:23: You are looking supply chains or everything from agribusiness to retail to petcams...you name it!

00:10:31: From that perspective a lot international investors start saying well this an interesting market.

00:10:38: instead me just trying For some of the capital for them to invest in my markets.

00:10:43: I need to start looking at you know, what's happening?

00:10:45: In countries like Saudi Arabia What's happening in their UAE and Qatar and different parts of the region.

00:10:51: And I think there is this wonderful discussion now about saying We're very keen to invest You know within your technology in your business But we also want to make sure that we can start you know manufacturing and localizing That here because we want to take advantage of whatever Economies of scale that we can achieve in this part of the world, right?

00:11:13: Okay So if you're close to the pet cam complex and your producing products that require pet cams You have it right there on your backyard And I can shave off.

00:11:21: Maybe percentage points Of your cost of goods sold.

00:11:26: That creates value.

00:11:28: so either handover for clients or keep yourself

00:11:32: Would say then a greater focus also from a sectorial perspective and really focusing on sectors where the region or specific countries in the region, have a right to play.

00:11:46: We saw over years of portfolio companies in a range of sectors from telecoms, mining, aviation, aerospace, defense... Do you see that focus also coming into being much more focused?

00:12:08: being clear about when am I playing a role that is more on the policy side of building an ecosystem and When Am i acting purely as an investor to generate returns?

00:12:18: Is That tension quite explicit now?

00:12:23: So I wouldn't call it tension.

00:12:24: Okay, I would say there's two points to keep in mind.

00:12:27: they're right when you talk about kind of the proliferation using your words and on The different sectors?

00:12:39: For example, with the events that we've just seen it's very natural for discussion on like defence becoming coming into forefront.

00:12:46: Maybe food security maybe supply chain and logistics in ensuring then thinking through other parts of infrastructure value-chain.

00:12:56: Or at the same time, it's also saying you know these are kind of the sectors that I've seen The most return out and i want to invest further in them.

00:13:04: That's one side.

00:13:05: so the reprioritization.

00:13:06: So I still think You'll see a national agenda.

00:13:08: They will drive A lot Of this infrastructure spend?

00:13:18: they're going to have become a lot leaner.

00:13:20: They are gonna be more focused in their offering.

00:13:23: and think about what you were referring earlier on, value creation within the specific business right?

00:13:31: To unlock whether it's cash or top line or even bottom-line

00:13:36: Okay great!

00:13:37: And that also brings me to point of... I just wanted double click on this.

00:13:42: briefly The region has always been seen as source capital.

00:13:47: Investors from all over the world fly in to raise capital, not to invest.

00:13:55: That's starting to shift right?

00:13:56: You see entities like the PIF etc.

00:13:59: putting much more emphasis in terms of bringing in co-investments and not putting all that on their own balance sheet looking at alternative ways to fund this growth.

00:14:09: How do you see it evolving?

00:14:13: later we'll get into some obstacles but for a first moment Has there been a big uptake in that, this inward investment now?

00:14:22: I think the short answer is yes.

00:14:27: The region has moved from just being a distributor of capital to also... Attracting it.

00:14:35: and I think there are when you think about some of these international investors that Are coming into looking at the region?

00:14:41: You're looking from a number Of different aspects.

00:14:42: right one is i'm Looking At, these large-scale projects That this big infrastructure Projects that meet my return or required rate of Return And I get to partner up with.

00:14:53: You know Different parts of The government and quasi government institutions.

00:14:59: so then you start thinking About safety in locking different parts of the return picture for you from that angle.

00:15:07: The other side to it is these economies are now widening, right?

00:15:10: If you think about ten years ago equity markets in the Middle East were always a way of redistribution and wealth.

00:15:17: so public asset will list at par Could come in as a national acquire the stake and then immediately it starts to re-rate.

00:15:26: on The first day of trading an alpha sudden I've made X amount of Alpha On the back of that, and these markets are developing.

00:15:32: The region is now part Of the MSCI the Morgan Stanley composite index.

00:15:38: Okay Which is a benchmark for emerging market?

00:15:40: Okay, excellent trees right.

00:15:42: so if you have If you're an emerging market investor Now their region is investable for you And you need to put part of your But part of your fund allocated to the

00:15:52: region.

00:15:52: Okay,

00:15:52: but then you think about the region.

00:15:54: GDP growth is well above global average.

00:15:57: Yes You know the dollar pegged economies removes any sort of FX

00:16:02: risk.

00:16:04: relatively safe, growing population with an ability to spend and a desire to spend.

00:16:09: And I catch up play.

00:16:11: that's there.

00:16:12: so you know

00:16:13: how can i invest?

00:16:15: This all sounded like it ticked a lot of boxes

00:16:17: right.

00:16:17: So from a macro perspective the region is attractive.

00:16:21: It was not necessary.

00:16:23: now its been for years but investors are thinking about this more carefully and starting

00:16:31: Great, great.

00:16:31: And it's fantastic that you opened up this point of equity markets because equity markets are still, let's say developing here in the region.

00:16:42: There has been a lot of strides to Dow all ADX

00:16:45: etc.,

00:16:46: but they're not at the level of dynamism liquidity depth that you'd see in New York Stock Exchange or LSE or something like that.

00:16:55: Tell me about more of the IPO environment and the equity market.

00:17:02: I

00:17:05: mean, it's one of the more interesting and parts like the economy because here is a way to take these wonderful private companies that have built this strong management team.

00:17:19: They've build You like the business, you liked management.

00:17:26: The fact that they're capable of delivering and then this is their way for them to crystallize its

00:17:32: value."

00:17:33: You are on board or an investor... ...you own a private company.

00:17:37: so what's it really worth?

00:17:39: It's worth.

00:17:39: what market will pay you for it!

00:17:41: And now we have this opportunity to go enlist parts from your investors.

00:17:47: This

00:17:47: is relatively new slash emerging exit route for investors, right?

00:17:53: Where before it was maybe a little bit more some kind of trade sale or strategic sale.

00:18:01: But now this IPO window is starting to be...or exit route is starting become let's say more viable.

00:18:06: It's another clear way to exit.

00:18:08: so I think one the most important discussions that we have with Clients or private clients is if you want to look and how investable as a company Is whenever?

00:18:18: You walk into an investment.

00:18:19: You wanna know How do we can work out right then?

00:18:22: so you will not kind of line up.

00:18:24: If I was gonna sell To us strategic who were the two three strategies that i'd sell too, if I Was Gonna IPO what would be the market?

00:18:31: And then you know What are companies trading at.

00:18:34: for me to have An angle in my head to know what I need to reach In terms of a threshold of maybe I Need to drive EBITDA to this number And then that's going to allow me to list at evaluation of X. Then my market cap is big enough, I'll see volume flow and it will be a sizable company on the exchange.

00:18:55: otherwise if you don't reach this number It might not trade or get any attention on listing

00:19:06: And let's say the emergence or opening of this IPO exit route probably also drives more interest from global private equity funds who now have a path.

00:19:20: to exit, correct?

00:19:21: Well that's one clearer you know.

00:19:23: but I think evolution continues right.

00:19:25: this is a wonderful path we're on.

00:19:28: The opening of the equity market started decades ago.

00:19:31: it was only recently with inclusion in MSCI index and loosening rules regulations how much you can list allowing foreign investors come into stocks even at IPO stage.

00:19:46: All of a sudden, that changes the entire conversation.

00:19:49: And so now international investors are saying well we're moving towards.

00:19:52: you know where we want to be when it comes to these exit routes?

00:19:58: Okay

00:19:58: but Sodi this is all very good and let me just try get into some challenges because then you can correct if I'm speaking out or doesn't make any sense.

00:20:09: basically Historically, some of the big investor groups have been family offices.

00:20:16: Correct?

00:20:18: I'd imagine that the governance requirements within those family offices, board independence and all these things are very different to.

00:20:30: How do you see this?

00:20:31: It's a big culture change, right.

00:20:33: Can you tell us a little bit about that... ...about the change of?

00:20:36: okay now we need to have different models for governance and be ready at par with what global standards are for governance.

00:20:45: So

00:20:46: it is funny how you mentioned but I've been thinking about like different layers that you want cover when you wanna invest in company.

00:20:54: What kind of sense check do you need before you?

00:20:57: to invest in a specific company?

00:20:59: and governance is the first layer.

00:21:01: Okay,

00:21:01: right?

00:21:02: And I think that's the most important topic because for me you need to understand how.

00:21:08: what is the composition of the board?

00:21:10: How many independent Board members do you have?

00:21:12: That will not just agree.

00:21:17: Sometimes when i look at companies You want to understand Is this more like national ceremonial role In terms of sitting on the board or do we have people who understand the business, yeah.

00:21:29: Who can help drive and steer that change needs to happen?

00:21:32: Or are there independent board members that could specifically add

00:21:35: value?".

00:21:37: And then that's kind of a core focus.

00:21:39: right.

00:21:40: if you're an investor coming into like private business You want know exactly who makes decisions stake in this business, and I have one seat on the board.

00:21:54: Am i really going to affect change?

00:21:56: And am I gonna introduce the positive changes that want?

00:22:01: or will my voice be drowned

00:22:04: out?".

00:22:06: That's probably something international investors grapple with when they come into if they're new to investing in the GCC, having to understand these extra layers of complexity that come from family business and understanding the cultural context.

00:22:25: I mean you've worked on both sides... From the region your Haleiji right?

00:22:32: Yet also work abroad.

00:22:34: so you have seen both side outside-in inside out.

00:22:37: how would say a foreign investor coming?

00:22:40: what are some mistakes preconceived notions that they arrive with, and then kind of get hit by reality.

00:22:48: The

00:22:48: truth is when an international investor comes to the region looks at an asset says business model checks out.

00:22:56: I like you know the board.

00:22:57: i like certain different points.

00:22:59: They miss-out on certain kinds of different layers That need really mitigate.

00:23:04: and think about the bandwidth of management, for example.

00:23:08: You're an institutional investor and this is a private business where CEOs never had to answer anybody but himself or his family members who sit on the board.

00:23:18: And all of sudden you have international investors that say I love what they've done with their businesses But these are my ideas which i want them to do.

00:23:24: How can we manage it?

00:23:25: Or how about improving your reporting and getting me financial information because thats important bandwidth, certain parts of the key driver or revenue for businesses may be related to a sovereign entity.

00:23:46: Or you've got government contract and in some cases these contracts account a massive amount of your overall business.

00:23:55: And some people can see that as risk, and how do I manage it?

00:24:02: a blanket, kind of.

00:24:10: whatever works in some of the developed markets like wherever these investors are coming from will work on them.

00:24:16: Middle East.

00:24:17: You need to be very active you need to Be very hands-on and your approach And you need To be Very much involved In investment portfolio management and spending time to understand not just the culture The business

00:24:31: yeah?

00:24:31: And that you touched A few times On the point Of Management.

00:24:35: Is that a challenge here in the region?

00:24:37: You know, like for example if I'm a private equity fund and Europe.

00:24:40: I have a very

00:24:42: deep

00:24:42: maybe almost unlimited pool of talent of seasons management across all functional areas with deep sector expertise.

00:24:52: Uh...I

00:24:53: Have a very robust- I am surrounded by robust industries from where i can poach different operating partners or COO's etc.

00:25:01: is That something you see companies kind grapple with here, being able to find the management talent for these very sprawling portfolios.

00:25:10: So I would say if you think about where brought in from wherever and the world, and the idea was for knowledge transfer to upscale The local community of the population.

00:25:26: For them to then be able to take over That kind of wave into succession is on track but obviously sometimes has its setbacks.

00:25:36: But it's moving in the right direction.

00:25:39: And I think that most important thing you're starting to see because these markets are now much more under the spotlight, you're starting to see a more international kind of talent.

00:25:52: also think about wanting to spend time in their region.

00:25:55: Whether it's driven by career or whether thinking about some projects that have been undertaken at this part Incredibly once in a lifetime.

00:26:08: Yeah transformational, right?

00:26:10: And so that also attracts A lot of different types of talent for people to want To get involved.

00:26:15: and now the real kind Of The critical point too it is how do you just go from Just knowledge transfer and ensuring That there's no less transfer and succession?

00:26:25: It's happening and I think You'll start to see it.

00:26:27: So

00:26:28: would you expect then within all of this For the capital golf capitol to stay more in the Gulf?

00:26:36: or will you expect still some kind of balance, right?

00:26:39: So you're seeing.

00:26:40: Of course an increase of money coming in.

00:26:43: that's great.

00:26:44: It means that Some of you know not all The major projects here need to be fully funded by local capital.

00:26:51: That's that's Great and it's generating Also a source of return for and growth for other other investors globally.

00:26:58: but In terms companies now sitting in the US and Silicon Valley or London, how can they still expect golf to be a major source of capital?

00:27:10: Or is that starting too... That world has kind-of

00:27:13: passed.

00:27:14: Yeah no I think so.

00:27:16: let me address your question.

00:27:18: two points.

00:27:19: So you know what we saw over eight to ten years in the region, was really about how do we transform the economy and kind of a vehicle.

00:27:32: A sovereign vehicle that can start-to-kick this growth?

00:27:37: And so our first phase is that we will fund a lot of these, get those wheels in motion then transfer them into the next phase where we'll begin to invite foreign capital to come in.

00:27:49: I think it's what direction or shift you're seeing here.

00:27:53: That's the first bit.

00:27:55: The second is when you think about allocating capital and you always want to make sure that you have a well-balanced portfolio, I think there will be an opportunity for foreign markets whether they're in developed markets like North America or Europe where if we look at more emerging markets looking out into the East or maybe even emergent economies... So i think this also becomes top of mind.

00:28:24: And then always I find it quite interesting that you have various countries, of course here in the GCC each with their own vision right?

00:28:34: In different horizons.

00:28:36: Different objectives, different advantages and disadvantages.

00:28:40: some have more scale like a Saudi Arabia.

00:28:43: others have a more interesting geographic position whatever.

00:28:48: do You see an opportunity for More integration Like for example between these sovereign wealth funds, a QIA, Mubad al-Auradia, PIF, Kuwait Fund.

00:29:01: Do you see an opportunity for some kind of GCC mega sovereign wealth fund?

00:29:08: possibility or is that a bit of...

00:29:10: It really would depend on the mandate, right?

00:29:12: So when you think about certain sovereign wealth funds some of them have a mandate to invest for future generations and so that's where they want to deploy capital.

00:29:21: And work as natural hedge against you know, capital outside.

00:29:31: and some have a mandate where they want to be little bit more active in driving the economy.

00:29:36: And then the growth within this specific country right?

00:29:39: So I think there's definitely room for integration.

00:29:43: There is definitely room to co-invest and to think about it as something we've seen by way across years.

00:29:49: so its not like that.

00:29:50: something new were different sovereign wealth funds in the region invests in different countries on the GCC.

00:29:58: But you know, I think every country has its You know plans for it's own growth and agenda.

00:30:05: And then at the same time.

00:30:06: Do have these investment vehicles that help you achieve?

00:30:08: That

00:30:09: okay excellent, and I think also the overlay of all this is Of course The energy transition Is a big part here because again Within whatever horizon you want to decide some people are more bullish others more bearish.

00:30:24: but in us over the course of a certain horizon Oil revenues are going to start too, right?

00:30:29: To taper off.

00:30:30: And as we know oil revenues have been a big let's say replenishment source for these funds.

00:30:39: so would you say that also driving the big change in strategy of how the capital is allocated but also the source of capital?

00:30:47: Well it's not a change.

00:30:49: this something the governments of our part have been thinking about for quite some time, right?

00:30:55: And it's thinking how do we diversify away from oil.

00:30:59: Some had different initiatives and some these initiatives are kicked off by event catalysts that we've seen over last few years.

00:31:07: so when you start to think with the introduction of shale Right?

00:31:13: And a lot of the countries in our part of world start to say, well look I mean we need make room for this new entrant into market.

00:31:20: Exactly!

00:31:21: So how do we... This is eating.. We're vying for demand from customers and they are competing with us.

00:31:28: so that's where a lot work has already been done on ground.

00:31:32: you starting see it as part.

00:31:35: what your seeing when looking at different country again broadening economy growth non-oil GDP thinking through different parts of the ecosystem and how Saudi Arabia can play in different parts or how UAE plays.

00:31:50: There's always going to be overlap, right?

00:31:51: That is not something that will change but there are also places for countries to shine as well.

00:32:01: Great, great.

00:32:02: Well I don't want to finish this session without getting some tips from you and also for the listeners right?

00:32:09: Given your an expert on his topic of investment... And by the way i'll make a little footnote.

00:32:13: You know, Roland Berger is not a qualified whatever-you have to say there SEC disclaimer.

00:32:19: that doesn't make any investment decisions on the basis Anywhere in the world, and I'm looking at the GCC To invest to seek you know good risk-adjusted returns.

00:32:37: What would be your top two tips?

00:32:39: Um.

00:32:41: I think You know really thing through your diligence process right i mean i think it's make sure you have an understanding of what you're Looking out what you investing in.

00:32:51: Make sure you Have a clear investment thesis.

00:32:54: i Would say that's The most important component Of It And i Think The way business is conducted in our part of the world has its nuances from other markets and you need to be prepared.

00:33:05: For example, a governance discussion maybe management bandwidth may even dependency on sovereign revenues that come through.

00:33:14: So I think that's a core focus.

00:33:17: But also, and then I would say going back to making sure you know how to exit right?

00:33:22: That exit readiness is very important when you come in which iIthink it already inherits an investors When they come through and look at the region.

00:33:29: yes but um...but I Think making sure You understand kind of The steps that need To happen..you Know when you want to crystallize and monetize this asset

00:33:39: Fantastic.

00:33:39: Well, yeah I've learned a lot.

00:33:41: i hope the listeners have also you know enjoyed and picked up A lot of interesting perspectives.

00:33:46: thank You for being here with us.

00:33:48: it's been truly informative.

00:33:51: So that brings Us to the close Of another episode of beyond-the-deck Here at rollenberger?

00:33:56: I hope you Enjoyed this journey through The world of capital here in the gulf And look forward To seeing you soon on the next Episode.