Culture, Strategy and the Super App Shift with Nourhan Farhat

00:00:06: Welcome to Beyond The Deck, the Rollenberger podcast where we step out of slides and into real stories shaping world and region.

00:00:16: Today I have with me Nuran Farhat.

00:00:18: she's VP of people strategy and ventures at Karim so you know... We're gonna a very dynamic conversation talking about how Karim is shaping this exciting space here in the region.

00:00:35: Welcome to the podcast.

00:00:36: Thank you for having me.

00:00:37: it's very great to have you and Let's just dive straight into it, okay?

00:00:43: So You studied engineering right then moved in to consulting Then into the corporate world at Karim.

00:00:50: so tell me a little bit about let's say The thought process of these different steps.

00:00:55: absolutely.

00:00:57: So I guess engineering to consulting was a relatively straightforward one because i tried a hundred and one internships throughout my engineering uh studying years.

00:01:08: And never loved any of them, to be super honest!

00:01:10: It felt like it was too repetitive for my liking.

00:01:13: Consulting?

00:01:14: I entered by a bit of pure coincidence... ...and fun fact is that this was Roland Berger's presentation the first session ever heard about consulting with Roland Berge giving me a presentation on what consulting was And the typical-

00:01:27: We did a good job.

00:01:28: You guys did an fantastic job, you've changed my career since then right?

00:01:32: So I attended that session and heard about consulting on how we change companies' trajectories in life... ...and joined consulting back than.. ..I found myself quite a lot into the consulting world for quite long period of time.

00:01:46: The ten years spent in consulting thought i'm gonna just stay there!

00:01:50: I really enjoyed it , loved problem solving aspect.

00:01:53: And then another surprise came along the way, where Kerem reached out for a corporate strategy role.

00:02:02: I did interview and married that with a bit of...I did feel like a push to start doing things myself.

00:02:12: as you know in consulting it's more behind-the-scenes.

00:02:14: You're inside the deck versus outside.

00:02:19: I wanted to own a bit more of the deliverables.

00:02:21: So, you know what?

00:02:22: Let me try... ...to get into business world myself.

00:02:26: Max!

00:02:26: I go back in my comfort zone for consulting.

00:02:28: Four or five years later.. ..I'm still on the corporate world and quite enjoying it so

00:02:33: far.".

00:02:34: What did you say surprised your most about that shift?

00:02:38: because as consultants we feel like.... like we're in the inside, and that we know what it means to be an operator.

00:02:45: And have skin-in-the game but I can imagine its quite different.

00:02:48: so tell me a little bit about What was your first let's say aha moment when you stepped into the other side?

00:02:54: You know i think It is a sentence that usually saying consulting only really clicked.

00:03:00: there was light sort of came out my mind When I joined the corporate world.

00:03:03: We always used to say culture eats strategy for breakfast.

00:03:06: right I have seen it first hand, especially now that i look after both strategy and people.

00:03:13: Man culture is a strategy for breakfast luncheon dinner

00:03:17: if you want.

00:03:18: so your stand behind that?

00:03:19: A

00:03:19: hundred percent!

00:03:21: That's where strategies fail.

00:03:22: Strategies could be great on paper but unless you really fix the operating model incentives The entire culture of company values.

00:03:32: I think that's the make it or break it.

00:03:34: Okay, great excellent.

00:03:36: Well i'll make note of that and incorporate into my.

00:03:38: yeah we need to convince consultants.

00:03:39: It actually doesn't matter.

00:03:40: yes

00:03:41: absolutely i at rb Actually?

00:03:43: I wear this hat of also managing The culture aspect.

00:03:46: so definitely i'm very happy To hear that.

00:03:48: uh This is also you know let's say permeating across other organizations.

00:03:52: um You mentioned in your journey That you had i mean quite a big Stint in consulting right?

00:03:59: I mean ten years.

00:04:00: you said yes, so quite a formative period of your career and some of it at Roland burger Absolutely.

00:04:05: So what stayed with you the most would say.

00:04:07: What did you value the most during your time at at Roland Burger?

00:04:11: I think that's amazing about RB.

00:04:13: is builds resilience Of course Yes problem-solving structure and whatnot.

00:04:18: but now when i usually reflect back on Roland burger It's very well rounded.

00:04:22: You are consultant through and though A, of figuring out what the problem statement is.

00:04:28: So they're breaking down to getting your own... Figuring outward to find your data too finding your experts until you own the client relationship or as a business analyst.

00:04:37: even that helps shape very strong character Very early on.

00:04:42: so I do very much appreciate That mindset off no matter What?

00:04:46: The problem Is You can figure it Out.

00:04:48: Yes

00:04:48: That is something that's truly, truly helpful for any career you want to pursue.

00:04:53: Great!

00:04:53: And say now in your role on the corporate side... Is it then a thing which goes back most?

00:05:01: The skill or mindset of resilience?

00:05:04: and no matter what you throw at me I can figure out?

00:05:07: A

00:05:07: hundred percent.

00:05:08: I wouldn't even say only with myself but looking into all candidates.

00:05:12: All team members working day-to-day basis Drive and resilience for me is the make it or break.

00:05:19: Because look skills you can always train, You can always learn along the way.

00:05:24: but that mindset shift Is something very difficult to train later in your career.

00:05:29: so I really appreciate when someone has That mentality on that mindset?

00:05:34: Excellent great The.

00:05:37: When i was introducing you II noticed that I Was saying a lot of A lot of roles.

00:05:42: I had already prepared, but then it was like people culture the people strategy ventures.

00:05:48: so that's a lot of hats to wear right?

00:05:50: So first of all tell me how did you come to where that many hats at Karim?

00:05:56: So I joined Karim as head of corporate strategy and chief staff.

00:06:01: Venture has made sense because its smaller set of businesses than Karim has That includes Karim box shops bikes, dine-out and tenants which are our partners that provide both home services and the car rentals.

00:06:15: It made sense to put them with strategy because each of them has a different role to play within The Super App And it's much closer To the center of their strategy.

00:06:24: I can very Much easier redirected at what... What role i want them to play in The Super app?

00:06:31: You're the one who is meant Acquire customers for me.

00:06:34: You're the one that's meant to generate profitability from you etc, etc.

00:06:38: The other hat and they people team had.

00:06:41: I think it was a Two reasons why these things came together.

00:06:46: first and foremost was Culture its strategy for breakfast.

00:06:49: So it is indeed that we have a strategy wanted to deliver And want to make sure that day culture that you have the talent strategy That you have very much aligned with this strategy at the time.

00:06:59: in second is It was a bit of time period where we didn't have a person playing the head of people role.

00:07:08: So, he said I can hold it for a little while.

00:07:10: now four years later i'm still playing the role and it's relatively working out right?

00:07:13: Now I actually know that multiple companies in the tech world in the region Have merged strategy and people okay.

00:07:19: so perhaps this is a long-term

00:07:22: trend.

00:07:22: I don't

00:07:22: know maybe but I'm glad That It's becoming thing.

00:07:25: were culture and strategy are actually coming hand in hand.

00:07:28: Yeah, I mean it sounds like it didn't happen completely by design some of its some by designs.

00:07:33: Some just buy a life.

00:07:36: But in the end having these three pieces all working together It makes a lot sense right?

00:07:41: Having that people aspect linked to the strategy and then have your ventures which i understand is almost an entrepreneurship.

00:07:52: At Rollenberger, one of our values is entrepreneurship.

00:07:56: Do you also feel like you get to scratch the entrepreneurship itch by doing this entrepreneurship role as well and setting up new ventures?

00:08:07: Do you feel that feeling a startup within bigger structure?

00:08:13: The answer's absolutely yes!

00:08:15: Going back your first question on why... Did I do the moves that I did?

00:08:20: I've always wanted to have something of my own, a company of mine.

00:08:25: So when I was first speaking with the Kareem team... ...I had wanted to come into playing a piano but it's very difficult for me from being just a generalist consultant in that way.

00:08:40: so.. ..I want to run a business or something see through the decisions of if I change a price or something, what's the implication on my customers are feeling.

00:08:52: If they were to change their demand projections how does the captain get impacted etc?

00:08:58: That was truly incredible and by all learnings that come from the venture world we have today do feedback into the strategy and people and culture aspect.

00:09:10: Excellent.

00:09:11: A little bit earlier, you used the term super app now here in Dubai.

00:09:17: This is a unknown term but I'll confess I moved to the region relatively recently beginning of twenty-twenty four.

00:09:23: Yeah, I'd never heard that term ever.

00:09:25: Super app also called everything up.

00:09:27: You also use that term right for this is a global podcast so people outside of the region that are not as familiar with this concept.

00:09:35: Can you just describe a little bit what the essence of this model is?

00:09:38: Because I'm sure there's more to it than just aggregating a bunch of different services on a platform, right?

00:09:45: Tell me a little about just... What really drives this model?

00:09:47: Absolutely!

00:09:48: So basically It removes the complexity and the friction of having download multiple applications into making it into one.

00:09:57: It consolidates your identity, payments locations et cetera onto a single app.

00:10:03: not only that is about the convenience element of it.

00:10:06: its' about putting you brand and trust in to giving getting the customer trust into a single brand Into That Single App.

00:10:15: I know when i come into The X Super App In this case into the Kareem Super App I'll get This For example, we aspire to stand for our dependability.

00:10:26: I want every customer that either uses ride-hailing or they use food deliveries Or if they use grocery delivery or box or whatever it is They have that stamp in the back of their mind off... ...I will get what they promised me and If they don't ,they'll do whatever takes.

00:10:42: sooo make up for me.

00:10:44: That

00:10:45: consistency of services on a single frictionless experience is something that's very valuable by the customer in our region.

00:10:54: Well, I mean it sounds like the way when you describe that would be valuable for everyone.

00:11:00: Yet this hasn't really taken off at least to my knowledge in US or Europe.

00:11:07: again me moved from here and hadn't experienced concept of fully integrated super app.

00:11:15: why is so successful?

00:11:20: Great question!

00:11:24: Three reasons why it's a bit succeeds more so in the east versus.

00:11:28: The west super app succeed more in these verses of us.

00:11:32: first is regulations In general, and the West It's a little more difficult for you given they antitrust regulations And competition laws etc.

00:11:40: etc.

00:11:41: here we're a bit more Relaxed on some of this dimension.

00:11:45: that one second is economic structure of the market allows for these kinds of services and super apps to exist.

00:11:53: To give you an example, right?

00:11:54: Cucommerce is a very thin margin business in general but given that higher disposable income vis-à-vis cost providing service it becomes It has the ability to become a profitable business.

00:12:07: in our region versus, it is more difficult given that it's a gig economy.

00:12:12: It's more expensive to do delivery than what not.

00:12:14: So that arbitrage you have

00:12:16: there?

00:12:17: Yes.

00:12:17: and then the third one is timing because if we think about when the time where super apps were growing massively especially for example China which was mainly started That's where everyone was coming online, coming more digital.

00:12:31: And sort of our region came mobile first we skipped the entire era of websites.

00:12:36: first We didn't have infrastructure payments and what not.

00:12:40: so timing also played a role in okay?

00:12:42: We could create the full ecosystem versus focus very deep on a single service.

00:12:45: Yes

00:12:46: Okay So you got to almost leapfrog.

00:12:47: so they speak all these steps of Distribution and go straight into D Let's say digital native

00:12:53: Exactly.

00:12:53: Oh, that's how we all went into building an ecosystem versus building a single product very, very deeply.

00:13:00: Okay

00:13:00: great well so I'm a customer of Karim.

00:13:03: Thank

00:13:04: you for your loyalty!

00:13:05: Yes

00:13:06: and uh...so of course i am familiar with your services.

00:13:10: What's

00:13:11: your favorite

00:13:12: one?

00:13:12: Right hailing the right hailing?

00:13:14: yeah I would say that is my main go to.

00:13:18: but in preparation for this podcast did little bit more research on the company consumer-facing brand that sometimes you forget, there's also a very big corporation behind it.

00:13:29: I went to look at the website etc.

00:13:32: and i saw that There is lot of talk about purpose And wanted get from just in.

00:13:38: if could distill... I don't need whole website slogan Just In your interpretation.

00:13:44: what really?

00:13:44: the purpose of Kareem?

00:13:47: From fact yesterday was our values fest and the core of it.

00:13:50: Was about our purpose.

00:13:51: so

00:13:51: it's called a values fest.

00:13:52: Yes, okay great as

00:13:53: always we spend that they basically talking.

00:13:55: what are why in the how right?

00:13:57: The white?

00:13:57: is our purpose on the house or values are six values In twenty twelve when Modesta magnets are too?

00:14:03: co-founders started Karim.

00:14:05: It was to deliver on a purpose.

00:14:07: They wrote its about simplifying improving the lives of people And building an awesome organization that inspires.

00:14:13: So it said two prongs for the purpose if you'd like I promise you, and I've seen a lot of mission statements written in many companies that have consulted for.

00:14:22: I've never seen it lived as much Okay In the beginning when Karim started.

00:14:29: if you think about it, Karim shaped a lot social impact infrastructure impact A lot economic impacts to regions that didn't have such big tech companies right?

00:14:40: And twenty twelve in Saudi.

00:14:43: It was first company Women actually be able to commute from point A to point B without having to be with a male male counterpart, right?

00:14:54: It helped capitinas.

00:14:55: Actually Be employed it and we've employed in chapter one of the ride hailing era basically before We became a super app.

00:15:03: Millions of captains would jobs.

00:15:05: it gave them billions of dollars of earnings.

00:15:09: It helps Pakistan when at lunch in Pakistan they actually help create infrastructure of the country.

00:15:14: So it created a transport system and so, it genuinely simplified people's lives.

00:15:21: in chapter two.

00:15:22: It continues to do so.

00:15:22: we've shifted into becoming a super app with the essence off.

00:15:25: its simplifies peoples life.

00:15:26: that provides your convenience.

00:15:28: And then on second aspect Of The Purpose is all about how Do I make sure i develop my colleagues by the way for example when colleagues leave us?

00:15:36: uh...and the reason of the exit interview as I'm leaving because they want to set up company.

00:15:41: We celebrate.

00:15:42: We never try to retain you back because we know your gonna become a Kareem Mafia.

00:15:47: Okay, we call you the Kareeme Mafia.

00:15:48: You are the Keree Mafia going to set up their next startup.

00:15:51: that will hopefully help us

00:15:54: and enrich the ecosystem hundred

00:15:56: percent.

00:15:57: So it does come from very purposeful.

00:16:00: every move that's remaining Every strategic Move is guided by That Purpose.

00:16:03: every Institutional change that we do is helped guide By this Purpose as well.

00:16:09: Great, great.

00:16:10: And you put a lot of emphasis on the captains.

00:16:13: I really like that.

00:16:14: but what do say?

00:16:15: The impact on the merchants is absolutely

00:16:18: and i think That's A new thing that came with the super app.

00:16:20: as we moved into Super App We had instead Of only focusing On the customer in captain the marketplace added.

00:16:25: Yes

00:16:30: It helps create so much business for both the big merchants that exist today But also the smaller businesses and restaurants, and shops that you have all across the region.

00:16:41: We do help create economic impact for all of these different

00:16:47: players.".

00:16:48: Okay great!

00:16:49: You know we can't have a podcast or conversation nowadays without talking about AI specifically because your tech-enabled business is probably even more of thing.

00:17:01: so tell me little bit how AI is transforming the way that you do business and what excites you, looking into the future in terms of potential for AI?

00:17:13: Another fun fact.

00:17:13: In twenty nineteen we had Euro-AI at Keryum.

00:17:17: so it was before it became trendy and hyped up.

00:17:20: That's who cared about AI.

00:17:23: We built a lot our tech actually based on AI, right?

00:17:27: Back in the day they ride hailing demand prediction model was all AI enabled.

00:17:32: The dispatching algorithm and whatnot.

00:17:36: More recently of course it's still part of our priorities And we do with sort-of across three Buckets I want to say.

00:17:44: first bucket is about how do i help my colleagues become more productive?

00:17:47: the company becomes more productive Right?

00:17:49: How Do I make sure that everyone Is using AI To Focus on what matters a bit more if you see what I mean.

00:17:56: Like how do, like create time for them to do?

00:18:00: only they can do versus a system is today able to unlock?

00:18:03: The second bucket it's all about AI on our products.

00:18:08: so... You said that you use Kareem.

00:18:09: have seen the grocery list we just launched ?

00:18:12: I've not no

00:18:13: need more of a user.

00:18:15: maybe after this conversation

00:18:17: right and literally write your grocery list anywhere in on a piece of paper or note pad your family member and whatnot.

00:18:26: You take a snapshot, then it creates the grocery list that gets delivered to you.

00:18:29: Fantastic!

00:18:30: So

00:18:31: make it glide even more easy for our customers using AI.

00:18:34: And last but not least is reimagining how super apps look like in their future AI world.

00:18:40: Will it continue to be an app?

00:18:42: will It Be completely different because the customer's mindset has now shifting into conversational and what-not?

00:18:49: Those are the three areas.

00:18:50: So I would say, you sound very excited about a topic and it sounds like you see much more potential an opportunity than risk.

00:18:58: but i guess there's probably some risks for your business as well.

00:19:01: or what would you say?

00:19:07: active.

00:19:07: We're being very proactive about figuring out where we can use it to our own good versus be the ones who are under receiving of its disruption, right?

00:19:16: I know a lot of discussions today are about whether It will impact People's jobs, right.

00:19:23: how many articles do you read every day on consulting going bus because AI tomorrow Being able to generate your strategy is not really the case.

00:19:32: Right?

00:19:32: yes humans will always be the biggest value add in all of this.

00:19:39: So yes, it's there we need to adapt with but its never gonna be so risky.

00:19:45: my point view that some would become Less important.

00:19:49: Okay, excellent now.

00:19:51: earlier I had touched on the point of your many hats you wear.

00:19:56: I listed three right people strategy and adventures.

00:20:00: But there are other hats that you where as well.

00:20:03: You're also a wife And do have two boys in.

00:20:07: if the boys or anything like you?

00:20:09: Very high energy.

00:20:11: So tell me a little bit about how you manage all of these.

00:20:15: now, this combined hats off your profession very demanding professional life and then also the personal side?

00:20:24: Yeah God bless them.

00:20:24: they're amazing energetic little munchkins.

00:20:28: that's exactly.

00:20:32: look I think two things.

00:20:34: one i have.

00:20:36: I have my own personal operating month.

00:20:39: Great, great to hear

00:20:40: that very clear To everyone who i work with and generally too.

00:20:44: My family is also aware of how?

00:20:47: I construct my days in weeks And whatnot.

00:20:49: so on the day's where I am With a family I Am with The Family and On The Days Where Have Something Very Urgent At Work.

00:20:56: I am at Work

00:20:57: Clear Boundaries Then

00:20:58: Very Clear boundaries and The Bounders Are Very Clear to the People Who need to be Aware Of it right?

00:21:03: So I am A Dinner With My Kids and I put Them to sleep.

00:21:07: I do not pick up my phone.

00:21:09: On weekends, i am with my family at work... ...I DO NOT to the extent that I can.. ..I AM FOCUSED on work as much as I can.

00:21:20: So thats something very important.

00:21:22: but the second thing is also when push comes to shove and very clear about Which hat I'm never gonna have is the

00:21:29: priority.

00:21:30: My heart is very clear on which hot is.

00:21:32: no one that comes first before any of the other hats in life let alone work versus family like family will come first, No matter what?

00:21:40: That's beautiful great and D it's a little bit.

00:21:45: It's cool right that you work on building a platform enables people to maybe regain control over their time and have more time for your families, you're someone who probably needs that the most.

00:22:02: You are working on building something I think is one of the main beneficiaries in terms of convenience For ambitious professionals out there, maybe particularly for young women who see you as a role model.

00:22:27: What advice can you give in terms of that?

00:22:29: Maybe you wish someone had given you a bit earlier in your career.

00:22:33: I think i'll go to the sentence I mentioned earlier which is be very clear about your operating model and make it clear to others.

00:22:41: We always hold ourselves back etc, I think if you are in a Company and generally with anyone who you're dealing with If your valued enough They will respect it as well.

00:22:56: If they don't respect that enough You're probably not in the right place either or you haven't found your match on the plate.

00:23:02: so It's very important.

00:23:04: It gives you so much clarity and comfort to be able to balance all of them The two different dimensions.

00:23:12: if i want to simplify then only make it too.

00:23:15: So write it down.

00:23:17: It's not an easy thing or like... An operating model is, I don't know a couple of hours in the evening?

00:23:22: No!

00:23:22: It takes much more than that.

00:23:25: so be very clear about the operating models have an explicit discussion with your counterparts on what that looks like and then make it happen to the extent you can with very minimal disruptions and exceptions.

00:23:37: Okay right so Know Your Value And Then Set A Very Clear Operating Model For Your Life.

00:23:44: Yes Aron, it's been wonderful to have you.

00:23:47: Thank you so much for being here with us today.

00:23:50: Pleasure!